NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/2926

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Path: cup.portal.com!Gemini2
From: [e-mail] (Gary Alan Peake)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: 24 Jan 1996 19:40:14 -0800
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>Hello Gary, nice to hear from you again ;)
>
>[many snips]

Many thanks!  :)
>
>
>>>GP> Why the 'Surfer Package' (that took extra money and time)?
>>
>>So even the good things they do are criticized? 'What an awful name'? Please
>>... let's hear YOUR name for the package?
>
>Actually, Net Surfer isn`t that bad a name. The packaging had better match the
>name though, nice neon dayglow colours... ;)

Please tell this to Eric?  :)

>The most important factor in this equation is going to be price, not
>necessarily name. 299 UK pounds and you`ll have a lot of people seriously
>thinking about the Net Surfer, much more, and you`ll be in a situation similar
>to AT UK at the moment (see below for more details).

So, we are 'positive' that they were cut because sales didn't measure up? Or
was it because C= UK was a seperate entity until being bought by Amiga Tech?
And being the rebels that bid against them, AT cut them? It happens in
business. Buy up the bad boys and then cut them out...

>>Oh? How many of the twelve people here do NOT think Amiga Technologies has a
>>plan? How many of the twelve DO think Amiga Technologies has a plan? (HINT:
>>See Amiga Technologies speeches and press releases for plans).
>
>That coded marketing spiel? It`s good for some discussion, but I don`t get
>serious until I see it on the shelf...

I understand. BUT, to hear Eric saying that 'many' people don't think Amiga
Tech has a plan is ludicrous to me. Hell, there aren't 'many' people here.

[mega snip]


>AHA! They risk alienating previous buyers by tacking off in a different
>direction. In terms of your example about cars. In Europe, the [GM] Vauxhall
>Vectra (Will be called Saturn in the US, I think) is a replacement for the
>ageing Cavalier model. It`s aimed at the company car buyer and while Vauxhall
>overhauled the entire engineering design, they kept the exterior and interior
>similar for the conservative company market. This was done in order to retain
>their custom when the time came for an upgrade. Sound familiar?
>
>In other words, Vauxhall was aiming the car at company car buyers, and who
>better to target first than previous Vauxhall owners who would have very much
>of an impact on sales...
>
>OK, so the design of the exterior and some of the interior almost apes the
>Cavlier that it was slated to replace, but the rest of the car has been
>redesigned and made much better than the stodgy Cavalier.

And is this not what Amiga Technologies is doing? Upgrading the initial
product and keeping it aimed at the same, first time buyers?

[more snips]


>I refer the honourable gentleman to the AT UK debacle, where, if he has read
>any news reports, AT has fired all but two of the staff and moved them to Esco
m
>HQ in the UK. This is due in no small part to the lack of advertising pre-Xmas
>whic resulted in "poor sales". I would hazard a guess that most of the Amiga
>buyers who bought a Magic pack Amiga were existing Amiga owners looking to
>upgrade, not the fabled "new" buyer. IMHO most of us stayed well clear because
,
>in many people`s opinions (including the retailers) the AT A1200 was
>overpriced.

Or, is it a case of getting rid of the excess baggage?

>
>You can call the Surfer whatever the hell you like. If it does`t get marketing
>an doesn`t come out at an almost consumer price it`ll never take off. IMHO, AT
>would be better served setting up a service provider subsidiary exclusively fo
r
>Amigas.

T.V. ads and magazine ads and interviews don't count as marketing? I read
here that Gilles was seen on tv? I saw interviews in some of the Amiga mags?

>Look around today, there are very few Service Providers who specifically cater
>for Amigas (ie have tech staff on hand in case of problems). AT could
>essentially cut the price of the Surfer pack to less than 299 UK pounds (or
>even 199 UK pounds?) In a "console-style" software deal that gives people
>access to the only Amiga-dedicated service provider in the World (ie AT
>Internet). That way, people pay less for the hardware, and AT makes profits ou
t
>of people subscribing to AT Internet. Offer 3 months free access to AT Interne
t
>and prices comparable to Demon, but with better service (that shouldn`t be har
d
>;) - Get some PoPs across Europe and USA via Unipalm Pipex and Bob is indeed
>your venerable father`s brother...


This is an EXCELLENT idea!! Have you posed this scenario to the good Dr or
to Gilles? They just might buy it if it looks monetarily worthwhile ... you
never know if you don't try it on for size!

>>>I didn't make a point.  I asked a question about current Amiga owners,
>>>since they're the only ones who seem to know about the 1200s/4000Ts.
>>
>>No 'new' buyers have bought a 1200 or 4000? That's strange! And if there are
>>'some' new buyers, where did they hear about the Amiga? You have apparently
>>totally missed what Amiga Technologies is doing ... filling up pent-up
>>demand AND trying to attract NEW buyers with the Magic & Surfer packages.
>
>OK, maybe some have bought the Magic Pack in the UK, but the majority are
>people who knew they wanted an A1200 (not many these days), rather than being
>attracted by non-existant advertising. Pent-up demand that has seen people
>flocking to the shops and leaving sereval thousand pent-up A1200 Magic Packs i
n
>the Escom stores
>in their droves. The AT UK Xmas "campaign" was a bad mistake. They cocked up
>on:
>
>1) Price. Too expensive. People don`t care what hoops you had to jump through
>to get it on the street, they won`t pay *more* for a machine which "died" 1
>year ago.

What about inflation? Nothing costs today what it did a year ago!


>2) Bundle. The games were pathetic.

Can't judge ... have only played a few in my whole lifetime (43 years).

>
>3) Hardware. The disk drive fiasco wasn`t good. For the few Amigans who
>actually thought about getting an A1200, the disk drive problem scared them
>off.


Why? I like being able to buy a computer with any size hard drive I want.

>4) What`s next? AT now have to consider how their fabled A1200Plus will fit
>into the market place. The wrong spec, price, or bundle could prove costly.
>IMHO, they have to reduce the price of the A1200 drastically. I could accept a
>Surfer pack at 399 (including the hard drive and modem etc.)  Clear out the ol
d
>A1200 by flogging it off for 299HD or 199 no HD.

Less than the 1200's have ever sold for? No tallying for inflation? This
will NEVER happen with ANY product ... in our lifetimes!

>
>[snippety]
>
>>Wrong rhetorical answer! It is death to NOT do R&D and apparently Amiga
>>Technologies is well aware of this.
>
>It`s a faster death to foul up the A1200 pricing, etc. see above.
>AT still have to backpedal and reduce the price of the A1200 if they are
>sensible.
>
>[snip]
>
>>>So a corporation is going to keep a money-losing subsidiary afloat in
>>>order to lose more money?  I hope the German tax code is as lax about
>>>businesses as the US's is.  That's the only reason I'd do something
>>>like that.
>>
>>Who has said that Amiga Technologies is losing money? I haven't heard or
>>read that anywhere. Facts speak volumes! I do believe that Amiga
>>Technologies is lessening the 'load' on Escom's finances at the moment!
>
>Hmm, how many units sold? What were AT`s expectations?? Certainly much higher
>than actual sales. Why else would they all but ditch the AT UK operational
>staff? They should have ditched a few of the less useful Escom Sales staff and
>replaced them with more Amiga savvy folks. Even AT must realise here that job
>motivation would be higher than your average spotty ex-Rumbelows salesman if
>they hired a bunch of Amiga experienced sales people.
>
>Heck, I would have applied for a job in my local Escom if they advertised - it
>was right after I graduated that the first Escom store opened in my local town
!
>
>>
> >I hope that none of these are true, and that AT does have the best in
> >mind for the Amiga, but illustrated like that, it is a no-win
> >situation.  The question has to be put out, and I hope that
> >Kittel/Bourdin can refute this line of argument.
>>
>>No need for them to. From the CEO of Escom on down, they have ALL refuted
>>the questions BEFORE you thought to ask them. How many times have they ALL
>>said that Escom/Amiga Technologies is in 'for the long run'?
>
>Of course they`ll refute it! It`s the official party line. Don`t you see if
>they start bad mouthing the Amiga they`ll destroy every confidence we ever had
>in them. Of course, I could be wrong ;)
>
>>
>>>Notice you didn't respond to this section, Gary...
>>
>>I didn't see any reason to. Too far fetched.
>
>Yeah, right ;)

Well, I DID respond. He just didn't accept it I guess?


> >The biggest market for the Amiga isn't NA, but NA is still the biggest
> >market in the world for computers (until the EU becomes a little more
> >technologically sophisticated and capable in all its member countries;
> >no insult, Eurofriends, because you have been catching up quickly, but
> >we in NA are still the biggest).  The PPC Amiga can make a killing
> >here, but there's a limited time frame.  It has to be done and
> >introduced prior to the abolition of the P6.  In order to make inroads
> >into the computer market, AT has to gain the worldwide acceptance of a
> >DOS or Mac box, and that means NA.  They can't focus simply on Europe,
> >unless they want to accept second-class citizenship in Cyberworld.
>>>
>>>GP> Lot's of changes are going on with our brethren overseas and the way tel
c
>>>GP> works, etc. I look for the European market to get much bigger on the
>>>GP> Internet. The Surfer package will fit right in with that movement.
>
>BBEEEPPP! No way are AT going to get an Internet package into the mainstream U
K
>market without:
>
>1.      The right price
>2.      A dedicated Amiga service provider who can help you set up.
>3.      Good software + hardware.

And we are soon to see if you and Eric or us 'apologists' are right.


>>>But you didn't answer my point about NA, did you?  That was only the
>>>purpose of my statement, after all.  Until telecommunications systems
>>>in the EU are fully deregulated and demonopolized, telecom there won't
>>>grow as fast as you think.  My proof is Britain; it's virtually the
>>>only point I agreed with the Thatcherites.
>>
>>Point answered then ... it has been said that the PPC will be here around
>>CEBit (March 1997). More rumor than fact, I'm sure. But that's what we have
>>to go with at the moment. If this isn't soon enough for you, then we are
>>defeated! I am patient enough to wait for Amiga Technologies and see what we
>>see. In the meantime, my 3000/25 is humming along nicely on 2.1 ... I may in
>>fact go to 3.1 any day now. After that I am planning on contacting Softwood
>>about a PPC card for my 3000. Then, the next step is the PPC Amiga for me.
>
>Good for you, but selling this plan in the UK will take some serious price
>cutting and marketing before the "big-boys" arrive.

I know, I know ... as Harv said in a post to Gilles not too long ago 'we
want it all, we want it yesterday, and we want it for free'. No way, Jose!
Tain't gonna happen ... reasonable maybe, serious - I don't see it
happening.

>>If you are looking for a BIG PUSH into North America beginning tomorrow,
>>don't hold your breath. Amiga Technologies has said more than once that it
>>ain't gonna happen that way. The PPC is their inroad into the North American
>>market. THAT competes!!
>
>Not without marketing and a competitive price it doesn`t.

Why can't we wait till it gets here before we start bitchin'?

>
>[snips]
>
>>Money is what corporations exist for ... no other reason! Only a fool would
>>believe otherwise. This said, there are a lot of Amiga fanatics at Amiga
>>Technologies. They feel just as deeply about the Amiga as some of us do.
>>Some people do DO things out of altruism. If you fail to believe the last
>>statement, get a look at the 'deathbed vigil'. I've never been fortunate
>>enough to actually see it, but I have heard that many tears were shed over
>>the Amiga by those who put their hearts and souls into it.
>
>They may do, but their Escom masters may not think that way if AT starts to cu
t
>deeply into Escom`s profits.

But, have they? I don't think so ... at least, not yet!

>>>GP> Still think the Surfer stuff is going to do great! That in itself is
>>>GP> something we've never had.
>>>
>>>I don't think it's going to do as great as you think it is.  It's going
>>>to be a fair-to-middling success at best.  It makes the fact that
>>>they'd better not make any false moves with the PPC even more
>>>important.
>>
>>Time will tell ...
>
>The turning point will be AT`s re-arranged price and spec policy. I wait the
>announcement of the Surfer pack with baited breath for I can see the future of
>the Amiga in 1996 and beyond hinging on the CeBIT.  Not too Mystic Meg for you
?
>;)

Nope ... it's perfect!

>[propaganda cut]
>
>>I am a believer in 'constructive criticism' and want my employees at work to
>>use lots of it with me. BUT, there is a point when criticism becomes
>>destructive rather than constructive. My definition of 'support' is probably
>>much different from yours I would think? Support ... buying of products,
>>complimenting the good points, suggesting work arounds for points we
>>disagree on in a 'constructive, unobtrusive, non-belligerant way, word of
>>mouth advertising, etc.
>>
>>What I do is this: show my agreement with the good things that Amiga
>>Technologies is doing by supporting them here (much to the dislike of
>>several), buy Amiga products from 3rd party vendors that are supporting us
>>by being here, showing and telling people every chance I get about the
>>things my Amiga's have done for years with ease, and using email to show my
>>discomfort with things that I don't feel are productive for me and the
>>people I know that use an Amiga, advertising with my taglines with every
>>message I post here and on Fidonet, helping people that I am qualified to
>>help get around problems that someone helped me with in the past.
>>
>
>Face it, you`re just a Yes man, and I don`t mean you`re a member of a 70`s
>supergroup, even if you liked Rick Wakeman in any way ;)

Sorry, don't know Rick Wakeman? And, no, I'm not a 'yes man'. I just believe
that what I see is real. I don't go looking for doom and gloom. I don't have
the belief that the ONLY reason Escom bought the Amiga is to rape the
fanatics as some here feel. I happen to think that Amiga Technologies has
hired and contracted some people with heart and feeling. I happen to believe
that the difference between the Amiga and all other computers is the heart
and feeling and emotion that Dr Kittle, Dave Haynie, and a bunch of others
have left in each of our computers. I have read the plan in the speeches and
press releases and have seen them taking it each step of the way. They are
now about 1/3 of the way there, why not give them the benefit of the doubt
FINALLY and say 'well, they have come this far, surely they are going all
the way now'? How long do we continue to prophicize doom and gloom and rape
and pillage of the masses? How long do we doubt a company that has not lied
to us ONE TIME so far? These guys and gals are NOT C=!!!

>
>[SNIP]
>
>See you later...
>

Gary
-----------------------------------------
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